Connecting with Nature in a Digital Age w— Kalpana Arias

Are technology + nature separate? At odds? Climate activist + ecosomatics educator Kalpana Arias joins the podcast to talk about embodied regeneration and ways to think more openly at the intersection of tech and climate. She asks us to remember our body as an ecosystem and to see ourselves as a part of the environment we’re in whether we live in the city or not.

“If we lose interaction with nature, we’ll lose nature [itself] because we’ll lose not only will, we’ll lose forms of interaction, and we’ll lose the skills to be able to interact with nature.” — Peter Khan from Nature in the Digital Age,

Kalpana is a tech-anthropologist, climate activist, and ecosomatics educator currently working at the intersection between technology, nature, and urban design. In 2020 they founded Nowadays On Earth; a platform advocating for contact with nature in the digital age and growing environmental justice for individual and planetary wellbeing.

we discuss —

• what is ecosomatics?
• why is regeneration so important and how does it become something we embody?
• her simple practices for connecting to our earthliness
• how do we navigate the world as it is right now as opposed to just thinking about the world as a mental concept
• if our body is an ecology, what are the implications of that?
• what is a wider view of technology?
• our current crisis of imagination + lack of dreaming
• how to critically and sovereignly engage with technology
• where does tech serve climate activism or where could it + where does it not?

LINKS

If you enjoyed the episode, check out —

Episode w— Alyssa Benjamin

Episode w— Miranda Aponte

Episode w— Langston Kahn

More about our guest —

Kalpana’s IG @nowadaysonearth

Check out Kalpana’s upcoming events here!

Mentioned in the episode—

• Nature in the Digital Age, article by Kalpana Arias + illustrations by Le.BLUE
• Stolen Focus, book by Johann Hari

Free Resources —

free info pamphlet for No Pesticides!

free Expand Your Intuition mini-course

Stay Connected —

Subscribe to the home—body podcast wherever you get your listens.

Mary Grace's website

join the free home—body portal and talk about the episode!

This podcast is produced by Softer Sounds. ✨

thanks for listening. peace, be well. 🙏

Transcript

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Music. My name is Mary Grace and you're listening to the homebody podcast. Here we explore embodiment as Interstellar beings practicing how to live more fully as creatures of both the stars and the Earth. These spiritually and artfully minded conversations intersect astrology creative practices intuition magic healing, poetry and a deep love for the natural world my hope is to enliven you so we can co-create possible regenerative Futures to encourage you so together we can become Dynamic agents of beauty. Fully awake with our power intact let us be intentional as we approach the creation and caretaking of life and let's make room for inquiry sensitivity and joy. Thank you for listening. Music. Hello everyone and welcome to today's episode where we're joined by climate activists Eco cymatics educator and Tech Anthropologist kalpana Arias. Where we discuss questions that I think are really relevant in today's world and things that were probably all grappling with on some level even if it's unconsciously these questions like are technology and nature separate are they at odds and kalpana really joins the podcast today to talk about embodied regeneration what are some ways we can think more openly about the intersection of tech and climate what are helpful ways of addressing some of the concerns what are questions that help open us to more of our innate wildness and to engage with technology not necessarily see it as an enemy but also how can we reframe it so that it serves nature and served our lives in a more human way. She also asked us to remember our body is an ecosystem and to see ourselves as part of the environment we're in even if we live in an urban environment kalpana is a tech Anthropologist a climate activists and also an Eco cymatics educator Who currently works at the intersection between technology nature and Urban Design. In 2020 as you found it nowadays on earth a platform advocating for contact with nature in the digital age and growing environmental justice for individual and planetary well-being, we talked about some things such as some of her simple practices for connecting to our earthliness why is the concept of regeneration so important and how do we make it more real something is something that we embody how do we navigate the world as it is right now as opposed to just thinking about the world as something that's mental or virtual even what are the implications of our body as an ecology and, Carpenter also really speaks very beautifully and it felt very poignant about our current crisis of imagination and our lack of dreaming and how to bring our dreaming into this waking world. It feels like a very important episode I really beautiful discussion and one of my favorites kalpana has such a deep and nuanced perspective to share and I hope that you enjoy getting into it. Please take a few seconds to also share the episode with someone who would also enjoy it and subscribe to the show wherever you listen to your podcast and with that let's Dive In. Music. Here I like to invite people to you know share how you would like us to know you today for this recording for this listening and what feels most forward about who you are and what you would like us to know about you today would you mind starting us that way. Yes thank you I love that invitation because immediately you know I always go to you know what I Know Myself asks and I think lately especially over the last couple weeks I've been I've been thinking a lot about okay who am I and that for me changes constantly. And I think I'm just a human being I'm going to introduce myself as a human being on Earth on planet Earth with a lot of different hats a lot of different roles. And. Yeah in a space of transition but I'm a human being I'm an Urban Gardener Tech nature lover and the climate activists and an unsure you can do the full Bush feel lighter than later on yeah I'll do all of your, you know fancy credentials and think before we jump into this is always such a nice way to talk about ourselves without feeling like we have to like prove our expertise or something it's just a more lovely way I think of kind of getting to know someone I think I want to start softly some of the concepts that I see jumping around your work or a lot are is this idea of Eco cymatics and embodying. Regeneration and also understanding our body as a part of our environment our body as an ecosystem as an ecology do you mind talking about how some of those ideas are kind of foundational to your work and how they inform. What they do like what are they and how do they can feed your work. Mmm yes so for me I really work in this space of bridging bridging and really actually closing the Gap entirely between humans and nature and really understanding that we are nature itself and for me. I think that the more we can learn about our body and our physical systems not just physical but then also more esoteric as well we get to understand the intersections of how. We exist in this space and then obviously that knowledge can be digested in different ways but for me the experiential understanding of, what these systems are is a much. More important and I think more impactful way of closing that gap of not just saying okay. You know I know I'm a part of nature because this article or this book or this person keeps telling me I am but can you feel it in your body and in your cells is that resonating with you and it's okay to be honest it's okay to sometimes feel like you know what I don't feel like I am a part of this world or of this environment because also like we are. Universal Cosmic beings like sometimes we don't feel like we are / from planet Earth you might feel like you're from some sort of other galaxies and other star and they think being able to to be. Critically honest with ourselves about what we're experiencing is really important to start closing those gaps and taking that step to really embody who we are which it's not just human but it's you know an Intergalactic Cosmic experience of being this. Yeah that's really beautifully said I joke sometimes I've had random doctors that you dislike I think if there are hybrid beings and aliens that you like might be one of them that Rings true but actually I think we're all kind of aliens because we do this both nurse I call it like our Interstellar Earnest how we are of these like both stars and out there and here yeah so I love that you brought that up because I feels very true for me I hope I find it quite funny as well though I obviously like I work in the climate space and I'm a gardener and I often have like people around me saying you know you're very like. Otherworldly or you know like you're not really from from this space and I'm like I feel like I'm that's it I definitely now embodying my earthliness and I very much claimed that because that you know reclaiming my body and my Heritage and my being has been apart of cultivating that relationship with the Earth but then I just kind of have to step back and just ask them like where do you think the Earth is like it's floating in space we are in space yeah exactly so part of being here is also being in space exactly that's so true and what are some of the things that you do in your regular day-to-day life. For me gardening is also a very big practice that helps me be here. What are some of the things that you do on a regular basis that help you kind of be here and reclaim more of that earthliness that you're talking about mmm so. Again I think I think exploring spaces and boundaries has been a huge part of my work, in terms of accessibility I think oftentimes we like to externalise our relationships to make meaning of the world and meaning out of our identities but for me it's been one starting to internalize those aspects of of again like I connect my body every day. Before I connect to the outside world and in that I am rooted in myself. To be able to then connect to Nature in a much deeper form in a way that's not just kind of. Top-level superficial but you know feeling into myself than the systems that exist within me and you how is that interacting then how am I. Feeling into that and then how is that interacting with the outside world so very much. Like to connect to my body as like the first step to then taking that connection outside so I like to include that practice for me in the mornings whether it's just lying down in bed and before I even like get up and do something I just feel into, the back of my spine first because every everyone kind of finds their orientation in their body in a different way for me it's always been sort of the back of my spine but that might be somewhere else for you if it's just about noticing okay what is capturing my awareness and and following and again that's cultivating that relationship of trust and honesty with yourself of like where am I feeling this and where am I not feeling this because not feeling is also a Feeling. That's true and also for me it's been a really powerful practice to notice when I'm not feeling and when I'm numbing out because I think. Previously I just wasn't aware that that's what I was doing and that's what's happening so that's a really good reminder I think that you're offering, I wonder too that I think it's important that connecting with our bodies. First let me first thing in the morning for me it's absolutely necessary or else I feel completely crazy throughout the rest of the day and. As we continue to live more and more in urban environments than the more and more of the population lives in urban environments I know you've done a lot of work on public green spaces and that nature is a human right and a lot of how we have designed our cities and urban environments and even sub Urban environments in a lot of cases to be like mosquito free and like all of these things I've done a lot of damage to our access to, the natural world which is also a way of connecting with ourselves and who we are and with our health and what we need and do you mind touching on that a little bit with urbanization connecting with green spaces and sort of how that affects us and what it's doing to us as humans yeah I mean. I every time I like go into, this part of my work I feel like I have to take a step back to really. You know bring that orientation towards a connection between, nature and everything that we create as a part of nature I think oftentimes were conditioned to see the world especially in urban spaces as. You know man-made versus nature when they are one they're just different evolutions of it and if we can take that Judgment of you know this is bad in this is wrong I think then once that judgement dissipates it allows us to kind of create more from this imaginary space that is much more connected to those natural systems and I even I struggle speaking about this sometimes because I don't necessarily like to use that word nature I mean you know how would we perceive the world if we didn't have that word and it would be a much more unified vision and I think when we were able to kind of Pierce through that Veil especially as we're walking around in cities to not be you this divide between, this and the other and and start seeing them as a part of each other and how can they influence one another to actually create a more. Whole whole semin regenerative system that is working towards a living space rather than creating dead spaces which I think conditioned air conditioning we have just ends up creating more of those dead non living spaces because they're not regenerative for the not. They're not there to kind of create that living system that we see in the quote-unquote natural world. Yeah I think that's a really nice way to sort of distinguish them I think and I remember I think it was like working at a dry cleaners in my early 20s or late teens I don't remember and I remember it pouring down rain outside and I was just looking out the window and just watching like massive amounts of rain falling and then it just like washing down the concrete and going down this drain and I I had this moment that a continue I think I'm still obsessed with like water systems and how water feeds into our ecology is just people and Outdoors and. I just wanted something is wrong that the water cannot sink into the ground like I was like it feels like that should be a really basic I mean it is it's an essential ingredient for a living system including us and I remember hearing. I think it was Paul Hawken talking about a language that they had recovered from an indigenous peoples in South America and they don't have a word for nature there was no word for nature because I was everything like it's the thing that's everywhere and so I was thinking of that as you were saying that I think that's really. Sometimes it feels like we're other ring it even just by naming it sometimes and I feel that Within Myself and I grapple with that word those words and aren't. Yes exactly and I think for me I mean. Even walking around in urban space I find the best way that's the best way to kind of start deconditioning that out of our experience of really connecting to the source of those materials of that creation so that, you know the boundary you can start to see the spaces between instead of looking at what's separating them so if you're you know, walking around and you're noticing concrete well. You know go to the source of it go to the materials go to the people whose hands and who you know everyone who's kind of taken a part of creating this because. They're all a part of Nature and you know that then it becomes a much more unified experience the way that you walk around is going to be much more different than. You know perceiving it as something other than. Damn I love that you recently wrote a piece on. You know the digital age and connecting with nature and. Which I will link in the show notes below because I think everyone should dive into that and there's also some really amazing illustrations that go with the articles of a which are very haunting but I think in an apt way well I think the first picture is this picture of these people would like their virtual reality goggles and then I'd look sort of like this moonscape or sort of desert if I'd environment around them but of course they're not aware of it because they're just plugged into. The goggles which is something that haunts me and I think about a lot do you mind jumping us into some of your. The role of technology and why it, is potentially increasingly harder to connect with the natural world as something other than a concept potentially because of just how we're engineering our attention in our experiences these days. Yeah of course and yeah it's very haunting images for sure but also I Think It's haunting because it's it's a reality that we're already seeing you know globally and I think that's you know what we always find more scary is when we know that you know it's already it's already happening. And I mean. For me I feel like as much as humans are a part of nature we're also technological beings. And when you think about technology. And again going to the source of Technology it is this Innovative creative power that. Has been used across civilizations cultures so I think. To pit technology against nature does Humanity a disservice to the. Potential it has to actually move us to a world where humans and nature are one. Because it can connect us back to our creativity and back into our imagination and Innovation but what. I'm sensing at the moment and where the connection comes with Eco cymatics in this as well Eco cymatics is a system that allows you to. Explore your senses in a way that you get to develop them so often times we sort of. Are very focused. On our visual sense because that's where masks culture maths media has driven us to and it's funny that you mentioned you know the thing from the illustrations that stuck out to you the most was these goggles on these humans you know their eyes their vision is being exploited because that is what's being exploited in us are. Our technology e our modern technology and with social Technologies is exploiting. In all of our senses for sure but mostly are our vision and when you when you think about what Vision means and what it is to us, that is the way that we are able to dream and indigenous cultures. When you speak to them about the ongoing human crisis that we're experiencing you know. Most of it can be tied back to a crisis of imagination. We are not dreaming we are just in this. Kind of we're kind of all streaming the same picture. Of one person's dream and it doesn't even have to be an individual it's more of an entity it's this entity that has sort of entranced. Humanity. Against itself so I think to to even start like thinking about okay how can we. How can we then use technology to dream more I think there's so many different. Groups and and also Innovative Technologies that are coming up at the moment with, 40 soundscapes things are technologies that are not just thinking about okay how can we. Exploit the senses how can we actually like let other people explore. You know touch or smell or. Movement space in a different way so that they can develop them. And that's where I am quite excited about the way that technology is evolving is evolving because. If we're able to develop our whole body systems and this way I think it helps us connect to the real outside world. Much more similarly I think that's why I think people enjoy being outdoors is because you get a full body sensory stimulation. That's development that's how your Ben. Creating and connecting with your environment so that you can move in this different way and you're not kind of stuck to the the similar. Way of how we're taught to be creative which is you know very sort of linearly and very much focused on on-site and vision so, that went everywhere but not sure if I answered your question fully but that's, that's kind of what I've been thinking a lot about lately yeah I know you did and. Yeah I was thinking outside like everything is happening all the time like it's not it's not as the opposite ear it's like everything has been happening ever since I was last in my garden even if that was 20 minutes ago and thinking too about. You know I'm obsessed with the microbiome which we won't get into here but even just, connecting with those environments in addition to like lighting up our sensory experience and developing or humanism that way it also feeds us the information in the ingredients and the organisms we need to just bli and I was reading a book right now called stolen focus by Johann Hari and, it's been turning it's been a lot of congealing a lot of ideas that I've been sort of grappling with accept his is just like well-researched and well-written and talking about, essentially like how of course we're having. Hard time solving something like climate crisis because as a culture in general we have lost our capacity to pay attention and focus on something for any extended period of time so grappling with larger questions nuanced problems large problems is our capacity is sort of meet those and grapple with them has diminished because we're so used to switching our attention and scrolling getting interrupted like we don't we're losing that capacity unless we're intentionally cultivating it, which is also part of. Something that I'm thinking about a lot and just being more conscious with our relationship to technology and how it is affecting us and I love how you talked about the you really talked about like we're just getting in trance by like one person's or one sort of figures. Interpretation of what technology could be and how it can quote serve us when really it's mostly serving capitalism General but I just thought that was really great. The action is something that I'm thinking about that's not really a question but it was a bounce-back of what you just said I don't know if you have any thoughts or Reflections but this room it just reminded me of. One of my friends Domingo a who's an indigenous activist and leader in Ecuador he often says you know the. And indigenous cultures they have Technologies it's just through plant communication and that is a technology I think if we're able to kind of expand our definition and. Again that's something that I really love exploring within you know our own body systems of how bizarre DNA serve how is it resonant to technology it has all of this data all of this information. And if we're able to access these spaces you know it's more intuitive technology but, what makes that any different then the photo memory history that you have on your phone. Accessibility but what if you're actually able to develop these more intuitive. Technological practices and the accessibility becomes more open and it's just we're not taught that in, our modern day and age like we don't really teach kids how to dream of anything we teach them or we tell them you know don't talk to me about your dreams I don't really want to hear it I mean you know and I think if we're able to sort of. Speak to those conversations more and and make space for them I think more of our human Ingenuity can can help to serve what's happening in the world right now. So yeah yeah yeah no I love that interpretation for a technology thinking also like our clothing is technology and Wells or technology in her glasses or technology and like there's so many ways that that can be expressed and that we can create I think it was dr. Vandana Shiva I think I may be misquoting her but I don't think I am but basically that the role of technology is and should be to serve nature that there's nothing inherently wrong with technology in and of itself it's that its purpose needs to be explicitly in service of nature of course I love that and I she's like a hero but yellow from Donna yes I know something that Domingo if and. It's in the heart all I think. Or maybe I didn't make it to Optical but I'm thinking about it but he did basically say that you know as. As we need regulations for technology if not it's going to evolve us out of our humanness because at the moment, the way that we are creating, technology has been from the space of convenience and like what makes life easier and. More and more so we're just. Trying to invent the humanness out of life because. Humans are the biggest inconvenience we're so chaotic like you know so we're just creating substitutes for that that are more manageable through data and algorithms because then we know what to expect and there's this sort of sense of false security and safety. But you know at the end of the day again it's that chaos that births creativity and so if you are. Trying to invent the Human Condition out of life what what are we trying to create or what are we evolving too. You know and is it by choice because because it's not really been a choice I think a lot of the times when mass culture adopts a technology. You not really given a choice so I think making yourself, a sovereign being by asking do I want to adopt this is this necessary for me do you need the latest iPhone or you know whatever like fragile thing Technologies are coming out these days and just asking like do do I need this and if I do have this because I feel like I needed. How is it going to be in the service of nature. If the creators of the apps or of the Technologies themselves and even if the government's aren't putting in the policies. At least the people who are ready to think about these Concepts need to start opening up to those questions because no one's thinking about them right now there are no policies to regulate Technologies or the way that it's impacting our health and well-being. Yeah which is pretty terrifying because it's it's you know our. Our government and our policies are not caught up to the exponential evolution in which technology has been through the last 50 years. So either either they start catching up for as a culture we need. Start thinking about these things because if not. You know for me I'm thinking about these questions all the time and it's a bit terrifying to kind of see the trajectory in which we're moving to you. And you do end up wondering like are we trying to invent the Human Condition out of living of Life yeah. Because I mean I think that's a great you summarized well so well and I think that. Reminds me of a doll read it actually in then I'll frame and there's a quote from the article contact with nature in the digital age that. It's a quoting Peter Kahn is a professor in the department of psychology and the director of the human interaction with nature at the University with nature and technological systems Lab at University of Washington and he says we're not on top of the world. We're in relationship with it, after all it's wildness that will sustain us not Wilderness if we lose interaction with nature we lose nature itself because will lose not only will will lose forms of interaction will lose the skills to be able to interact with nature and thinking about that while you're talking about with are we trying to engineer out like as if you being human is like a problem and thinking about that as the wildness is like a necessary ingredient that nature like isn't safe in a lot of ways like it is a wild unpredictable chaotic messy nonlinear, thing and so is most of Being Human really it's like love is really inconvenient being in relationship with people is like highly inconvenient gardening your food is harder than going to Kroger and you know all these and they're harder but like is it making my life better to not. Be in relationship because it's inconvenient and so I think that framework of questions that you asked is really valuable like is this serving nature is it serving me and, like being really clear on like what that looks like for oneself since no one else is really going to do that for us at least not right now it seems. Yeah and I love that coat that was all of his conversations I had for the article there, so incredible and I really encourage everyone who's listening to this to definitely look up everyone who collaborated on this piece and on the on the topic of wildness as well it's such an interesting concept and I don't know if a lot of acknowledge a South better think about the way that we can actually incorporate wild patterns into the Technologies we create. You know if wildness this is what sustains us but sustains this Earth and Gaia is a being who is wild in herself you know how can we replicate those systems and I think you get that a lot through biomimicry and. Technological inventions and innovations that follow those methodologies since this them so it's something to really. To really notice and think about how can I incorporate more wildness into my life and I think it allows us to celebrate. The unexpectedness of life in the chaos because it's like. A breath of fresh air and you know that it's good for you and it's needed and it might not feel like it at the time because we love we love to know what's going to happen like our, ego mind structure want safety at once convenience for its own Survival but I think it's interesting that I even mentioned the world survival because I think we're on this hyperdrive stick age of survival and I think the urgency of the climate crisis and, different crises across the world puts us into that hyperdrive of survival. What kind of choices would we make if we were not in that state of survival. You know I think that is very potent and itself because when we're not. You know out there in the world surviving what are we doing we're just living we're living. In our beingness which is in itself this wild chaotic. Manifesting creation that's unfolding moment-to-moment you know that you just can't know and I think something that I've been exploring over the last six months is how to be. In the unknown like how can I be myself without knowing who I am. For me I think that we forget to live and why we're living now and for me think if we were able to kind of shift from you know that survival perspective and that's obviously not to take away from the experiences that people are living through right now that are very real life and death situations because of course we have to consider them but I think what it does to our systems and our bodies. Is sending us in this downward spiral of not really being able to to live and create from a space of living - rather than you know fight or flight because I think you make different decisions in those situations and it's really I think it really puts us face-to-face with our mortality and our society doesn't teach us how to go through death and how to understand it, and I think when we're able to actually come to grips with the transitory state of the world everything is in constant Evolution transition change all the time like you as a person physically are not the same the moment that you go to sleep and wake up but too you know if you will get Space to that living Nest to the cycles of death within you and step into it with much more. Empowerment and Trust knowing that. Even though you're going through the cycles and these changes you're still here you are still here. What does that mean mmm yeah that makes me think of so many things. Chilean Mycologist that I really love I was listening to her on a podcast and just someone was asking her what are the once one of the biggest lessons you've learned from fungi and she said the death doesn't exist like there's no such thing as death, and all these kind of miraculous things and these wonderful living this things we can learn when we need to start paying attention to, how the world already Works around us and. I was like hanging out with my dog outside the other day and watching The Birds And I was like you know they just. They just make Nest they get food to hang out and they sing like that's their life that's what they do and they like fly around I was like why that's literally all we should be doing that's all we have to do and just utter like we don't have to build an Empire we don't have to become multi millionaires you don't have to be great at you there's so many things that we think we have to do that we actually just don't have to do and, something about that it feels very simple but for me it really landed in a really. Nice way again re-centering this living Miss as opposed to so much of what drives us these days which often isn't bad at all it is that survival or it is that ambition and I don't think there's anything wrong with those in and of themselves but when it becomes our only fuel the only note that we know how to play it can really wear a stone. Mmm yeah exactly. Like chase her own shadow yeah totally and you're like missing it's like you're just were so like focused in on this one thing we're missing this whole like magic around us all the time that is actually like utterly simple and all of its complexity and chaos and wildness as you were saying. Before we wrap up and find out all the ways that we can find you and follow you and get obsessed with you is there anything that you would like to share or say that you feel like I didn't make space for. I think I mean something we've sort of covered as a theme overall is you know within it's our experience as humans like. I think we're always trying to figure out what that means whether it's through our relationship with nature our relationship technology and something that I love exploring and that actually you know even set me on a spiritual path in the first place and also allowed me to reclaim my Heritage and my roots was dreams and you know we spoke about that through its relationship with vision and technology and what that means and just the importance of dreaming I feel like when we often think we often sort of. Undervalue our ability to dream even at night or even when we do. Because we think it's just like I was just this thing I do when I'm asleep and I'm not really conscious. But the importance of it is so valuable to our experience of being human on earth. And I just I want to encourage everyone who's listening to too kind of. Go into the the sensory stimulation of you know what it means to dream. And take that into your Waking Life and dream. In this waking world the same way that you dream at night. I think that allows us to explore that relationship with nature and Technology deeper and you know let that let that experience create. Those movements of evolution in your own selves and in your own somatic systems and see where it takes you I hope you create wonderful things. Yeah that's really beautiful and thank you for sharing that where can people find you on the internet do you have anything coming up in the fall that you would like people to know about where can people find you and follow you and stay connected. Yes so you can follow our work nowadays on Earth and my personal Instagram as well as. Arias alayha I was going to try to spell it but I was like they'll get it and show notes and we do have actually a few workshops virtually that are coming up and then some in London for anyone who is in England and wants to come to an eir LOL event but we have an Eco cinematics virtual Workshop coming up. Later this fall and we're hoping to actually do them continually at least once a month so yeah that will be a nice nice space Also join our book club because we sort of explore. Nature connection technology dreams and much more in it and it's also more intimate way to kind of. Ask questions and get to know these topics deeper and you know I had a teacher actually once tell me that. The questions we ask are much more important than the answers we receive so I always like to make more space for questions and answers. That is true alright yeah one of my favorite choreographer writer thinkers she says that the way that she sort of Tricks herself into being here is by asking impossible question. I love that I know and that note thank you so much for being here and sharing all of your your magic and you're inside and you're dreaming with us I really appreciate it I've enjoyed it very much. If you enjoyed the episode please leave us a 5-star review subscribe to the show and share the episode. Check out the links below to learn more about things we talked about and find free resources. If you'd like to continue the conversation please join us inside of the home body portal, a free online community where you can talk more about the episode learn with us and connect with others let us be in service to life with courage creativity and connection. Thank you for being here be well peace. Music.